Part 158
Sitemap '--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ' Whole Lots More Fabulous Items/Ideas For a BioShock Rapture MMORPG '--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ' ' Part 158 ' --- --- --- --- --- --- Game Mechanics Mission Info Access Mechanism for the MMORPG ''' : Player Accessible through Interfaces : * 1) A City Bulletin board which is pseudo-customized for the Player (each Player sees a different one). * 2) Mission/Quest Givers met in 'the usual places' (can even make a joke about the old D&D cliche). * 3) Ad Hoc 'Happens in front of the Player' immediate assignment activities (just join in). * 4) Letters with assignments for any 'Role' the Player has agreed to. The mechanism should control : * Having some overall narrative sequence (the usual chained missions, but likely with logic controlled with different 'path' options and variations). * Loose story arcs - being an MMORPG, it is hard to 'nail down' major plot items, as endgames cause Players to stop playing when it is "finished". Different Players are usually on different parts/phases of these arcs simultaneously (and they have to all exist together). * To Cull out the numbers of Missions which the Player is not capable of yet (but leaving a few to give a taste for future Missions). Being Fitted to a Player's level (too hard content has a way of making Players give up and quit, when they think their time is being wasted). Difficulty advancement adjustments - being able to do things you previously found, but had to 'run away from' (Many could be designed with 'progressive difficulty' the further you go into the Mission). * Timely Missions (ones that disappear after a while if not taken - deadlines, etc...) * Circulation of Missions taking place in Specific/Iconic/Well-Known (non-generic) Public Sites, to not have multiple Player mission-takers active at well-known locations at the same time. (Server Bubble mechanism can alleviate alot of this). * Ease-of-use Interfaces (and widget/skins/mods) - Player "Shouldn't Have To Fight The Interface". * Information (clues ?) for "cumulative" mission progressions (gathering the pieces - most probably not too subtle). --- --- --- '''Portal To An Alternate Reality : The Ultimate Story *Crutch* which can get the Player/cohorts out of ANY peril/puzzle/situation without any problem whatsoever (and no need to craft a logical/effort-taking/imaginative/clever resolution by the writer). Only *VERY* weak writers employ such a mechanism in their story. --- --- --- ' "By Manipulation of a Pair of Quantum-Entangled Atoms" ' : And exactly how did Rosalind happen to find that one atom (consider a ordinary loaf of bread has a ballpark figure of 2.5 x 10^25 atoms in it -- that's 25 ZEROS in that huge number), and she probably wasn't even looking at her Hummas sandwich that lunchtime). But then you have to understand a little about this multiverse stuff, and the REAL infinite of infinites involved. It turns out that EVERY atom in the universe is somewhere in all that INFINITY being manipulated by one of the INFINITE number of Luteces (and some INFINITE number of other characters as well - HEY there's a multiverse explanation for 'Brownian Motion' - heh, they didn't think of THAT one ... ). SO in any one Universe somewhere, any Atom Rosalind picked might in connect her to some version of herself (the talking dog version would have been a real surprise when he came thru the Tear portal), and in turn would be ignored by the INFINITE number clones of herself who weren't signalling in Morse code at that moment (the ones signalling in the other INFINITE universe's Zippity-Do-Dah (or whatever) code she completely didn't recognize or detect). Good thing she didn't signal and meet her Hannibal Lector self, or the one from the universe where the peoples blood is made up of what we call The Plague Virus ... Or the Anti-Matter universe. (or any number of other totally possible mishaps) Lets not let the slight problem of the theoretical 'quantum entanglement' across-interdimensional -multiverses-not-being-part-of-Quantum-Physics fundamentally get in the way of the story. (Come to think of it, 'The Multiverse Theory' is not really part of Quantum Physics either, according to the majority of REAL Quantum Physicists, who say that theory breaks more things than it is supposed to resolve). - Since there's no real restriction on this stuff in Fantasy (particular since they opened up the Pandora's Box of 'multiverse' infinites), why not have enough multiple entangled atoms and grouped together cohesively to have an 'entangled' Dinner Gong, which might have been easier for whoever is on the other side to notice ?? Hmm, another revelation : Any 'ghosty' thing in the world (... pick a world, any world) is actually some form of Lutece 'the other side' trying to use an atom (any and all of them) to signal someone, wherever, whenever, whomever ... ((SO all those 'Ghost Story' things in BS1 were just some Lutece (crazy or weird) trying to signa; 'The Other Side' ???? The internet is getting very odd -- this Yahoo query "atoms in a loaf of bread" turned up this : http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?75949-How-Many-Atoms-are-in-a-Regular-Loaf-of-Bread --- --- --- Third Reich Connection : Ryan may have obtained some German engineers (unemployed after the war) who were familiar with mass Concrete Construction work, added to Americans and others, who did various public works before/during/after WW2 in that material. No doubt other Germans fled the destruction in Germany immediately after the war (including those who had lived in the Russian zone). Sounds like the perfect opportunity for 'Crazy Nazi Splicers' for you to fight (the chaos allowing a faction of that flavor to come into existence). (('' Nazis and Zombies are traditional PC-Safe targets of player mayhem, so NAZI ZOMBIES are doubly so (squared-PC safe), and if they can somehow join "The Church of Lamb" then ... '' )) --- --- --- ' The Electron (Known as Cathode Rays) Wasn't Discovered Until 1897 ' : So Lutece is supposed to do work on 'quantum particles' - whatever they are supposed to be years before the Electron). Using Knowledge and Mechanisms/Technology yet unknown - amazing how she overcame such roadblocks all by herself (as in : Sorry Kenny, your contrived timeline is BS). Consider that Lutece had to have this 'technology' working well before 1893 to have allowed its development/engineering, AND for Comstock to have become that 'Prophet' by using it -- and that convenient aging for him to NOT look like a snot-nosed 19 year-old (and that being only a few years after 'Wounded Knee', which happened Dec 1890. (('' Not just 'contrived', but STUPIDLY contrived, and even HACK-WRITTEN STUPIDLY contrived. '' )) Is it starting to look a bit TOO 'contrived' yet ? Explaining Too Much Of Technical Details is a Trap GOOD WRITERS Avoid. Linking to real events too heavily, and badly to scientific details is problematic. Historic presentations fail when too much modern spin are put on them. (( '' If Comstock could do all those things in just a few short years, why did Infinite BS take about 6 years to make ??? '' )) --- --- --- Safe and Sane (Splicerdom Was Not For All) : An Interesting thing is so many of the 'special' characters you interact with in Rapture AREN'T SPLICERS (or not enuf to matter). It could be taken as evidence that there were quite alot of people in the population that never became ADAM-Users (something to give the MMORPGs 'later times' Rapture some variation and potential for its rebuilding). * Ryan (of course, though did the Vita Chambers use any ADAM - maybe WITHOUT gene-mods which caused genetic disruptions) * Atlas/Fontaine (initially, then became one big blob of ADAM) * Langford - survived that gas spanking (seriously YOU though Ryan killed her ??) and kept straight * Tenenbaum - too much guilt Sofia Lamb - didn't need ADAM to make HER crazy * Grace (crazy on earlier addictions? - jazz singers notorious for Heroin use) * Sinclair (later an insta-Alpha which is a bit too quick for the way ADAM works) * That other Johnny guy who tried to get u out of bathysphere * Mark Meltzer (The guy in BS2 there to rescue his daughter) though he becomes Daddy-ADAMized later * Porter (another one later Daddy-ized, which uses alot of ADAM to adapt) * McDonagh (though he sound pretty crazy with some of the things the writers have him say) * Steinmann (he doesn't seem to have overt splicer powers for all that he's so Bonkers - he might be showing effects of too much exposure to ADAM in his surgical operations) Of course it wouldn't be fun unless some 'Bosses' had those Genetic powers : * Sander Cohen - with all the ADAM he took, he shoulda been one big Tumor, no? Perhaps it was the quality stuff which he could afford (alot of poor quality bootleg ADAM mightv'e been reason for most Splicers deformations). * Gil Alexander (poster boy for Splicing) * Eleanor (???) - were all Sisters a kind of 'Splicer?? * Wahl - projected his craziness and thought the Thinker was actually intelligent * Wales brothers - One was a Spider the other A Mad Priest - Too bad Fink didn't know anything about Medical uses of ADAM, or Comstock might've been able to repair his 'Aging' (WHICH NOBODY ELSE SEEMS TO HAVE EVER SUFFERED FROM THAT 'TEAR" EXPOSURE THING ...."CUZ The Story Said So"). Imagine him being a 'Teen Idol' (Angelic) looking chappy to impress the people of Columbia (who all also could 'ascend' to a proper Eden-like perfection -- possibly kidnap Steinmann for those who even that couldn't fix ??) (( '' It is actually unknown whether the Handymen or Songbird were ADAM-enhanced, or that they didn't just have Quantumz Particles stuck up their butts instead '' )) --- --- --- Infinite BS page Infinite BS's Dystopia was a Bit Different : Yes, its a Crapsack World for the 'untermenschen', but it is never quite explained why the 'oppressed' haven't left Columbia to go to the 'rest of America' which ISN'T a Totalitarian Oppressor, and which offers so many opportunities. Why they all are even THERE isn't really explained. For what reason would those poor Americans put up with the Religious Oppression (just the Irish by themselves could have disabled/grounded Columbia to leave, and when blocked cut all the Founders throats or burned them in their beds -- there is no place to run for the tyrants). So some equilibrium seems to have been in effect. The 'fall' happens while YOU are there. Or rather, happens as you skip (conveniently) to new realities through 'Tears'. You can't really see in those NEW dimensions the previous events that caused their situation (or any which YOU caused/took part in). YOU (as far as you know in the game) are apparently the Agent of Destruction (ie- firefights across Columbia disrupting the whole place, mass death you unleash and the major destruction you cause). Upto that point, the impressive Police State looks to have been pretty much 'handling' those Vox Anarchists (and any other enemies of The Founder's Regime). But Then all hell breaks loose. YOUR Stirring up the 'Revolution' (in certain dimensions) gets lots of the 'poor'/'downtrodden'/'oppressed' killed. Far more will subsequently die from starvation -- if not by plummeting to their deaths when damaged city sections fail, or their lives are extinguished by the fires the 'rebels' set which turn those shoddy (chickenwire/plaster/lathing) faux-buildings into raging infernos. (( '' Its hard to PLAY charred Vox-o-phones of Screams found amongst the corpses in the wreckage. '' )) Too bad we didn't jump into the StepfordStepford Wives Columbia where all inhabitants are happy, and the 'police' only carry flowers. Drug mind-control made possible by Fink Manufacturing, of course (post BaSx where Fink STOLE the Pheromone Control thing ...). --- --- --- TRANS ORBITAL LOBOTOMY : Hey, we should mention THIS frequently in the Moon Rapture game ...'orbital', heh !!!! Infinite BS could have used those Blue Orby things to 'orbitalize' the mental cases -- along with shoving their heads in and out of 'Tears' to Adjust the problem patients (and lower class troublemakers). We could have done so much more horrendous things (for you to discover rather than have your face pushed into it) along these lines ..... *IMAGINATION* . Lobotomy - Actually thinking about what this operation does, it (and similar procedures) might have been VERY useful in the treatment of the Criminally Insane (in Rapture), as it damages the brain a certain way (was used to 'calm' problem mental patients), and certain applied ADAM therapies could REPAIR the damage leaving the individual in perhaps a better state. Think of 'conditioning' a Big Daddy (Diver Dan/Maintenance Cyborg) for its role, where a more single-mindedness might be quite useful for Maintenance tasks. Then the RETRAINING is applied which would reconstruct in the 'wiped' segments of the brain. It is real hard to rebuild a personality (person) by such 'training', and this conditioning mostly focused on the needed functions/abilities. - Consider that Jack was a 'blank slate', and what little he ever was had to be created in such a short time. Maybe a bit broader (and longer) conditioning than a Big Daddy might get (who had remnants of a personality already). REMEMBER - It all was seen only through YOUR unrealizing game perception, and it hid the actual simpleness of his mentality. Those flashed memories didn't even have to register/be interpreted (as we do, with our decades of experience in the complex world) other than as some positive image for which reinforcement conditioning was done : "Look At The Pretty Picture Jack - Good Here's a Jellybean " ... "Look At This BAD Picture Jack *zzzzzZAPPP* ". It filled in a gap/void in his psyche - all nice and reassuring because that was what it was conditioned/shaped to be. What exactly it was really didn't matter. Physical coordination might be accelerated (most kids get most of it before they are 10), but an adult mind takes far longer than that. What about Jack UNDERSTANDING the actually meaning of all those long words Atlas is spewing at the Player?? It really might be little better than a 4 year old being conditioned to *TRUST* that particular voice (and to DISTRUST Ryan's). It may have really just been heard as "Mwuh mwah, mwum mwum mwum, mwah mwaah. (like the parents talking in those Chalie Brown Specials) " --- --- --- Sinclair Solutions (Yes, Sinclair Was A Major Player) ' : He had the Sinclair Solutions Pack (seen in the Multi Player game), which did have Plasmids in it. SO would Sinclair sell someone else's Plasmids, or would he want to 'Cut out the Middleman' and be vending his own ? His Surface businesses had included Pharmaceuticals... Remember others (bootleggers if you can use that phrase in an unrestricted environment) also sold Plasmids/Tonics they produced in Rapture. Sinclair - pharmaceuticals ... I remember seeing it somewhere. Possibly it is from the Novel (but in the game we do get this Vita Chamber device) showing Sinclair is not a lightweight in the area of technical medical stuff). Sinclair was already rich when he came to Rapture, and Pharmaceuticals was a real world way of making that happen (and at that time, plant-based chemicals were a large source - something you really didn't have premade sources for in Rapture. But Sinclair could, using his previous experience/know-how with plants, bring them to be cultivated - and having useful modern drugs would be something Ryan would want for "self-contained" Rapture). Ryan's having the Pre-ADAM-labs which Tenenbaum worked in meant Sinclair probably already was working in the medical (drugs? anti-biotics?) field ... Ryan actually had regard for proper competition ( Offer a Better Product ) so Sinclair also being in the ADAM product business probably would not make him Ryan's enemy (even better if Sinclair could figure out how to make the ADAM products safer). Ryan had all the rest of Rapture and his businesses to worry about. Sinclair might develop/market something different on his own (via his 'Think Tank' - Audio Diary "Selling Ryan Short"), or if the project was too big, sell it to Ryan who had 'deeper-pockets' and who wanted to outdo Fontaine. Remember, the ADAM industry was big, with alot of different people/companies working on many different projects/products. So it would be highly likely Sinclair would not know all of what Tenenbaum was working on (particularly if it was something Fontaine wanted kept secret). Ditto for Suchong. BTW - The Vita Chamber is some different technology, and remember Ryan himself was a technical genius (power systems, etc...), so his know-how tied in with Alexander's/Suchong's/Sinclair's might have produced an exclusive product separate from ADAM. It could then compete with ADAM and Fontaine (and maybe it was planned as a way to alleviate ADAM side-effects which would be in increasing demand). We saw Vita Chambers deployed all over Rapture (If we wish to NOT discount them merely being there as a Game Save convenience), so they must have worked and been in demand by consumers. I will have to go back and read the Novel again. (After forcing you to follow the villian Atlas in BS1, the writers wanted you to doubt Sinclair) Those pages (ex- p119) paint Sinclair in a better light than he is portrayed in many parts of the game. He is more mindful of 'civilized'/moral conventions - lines that he wouldn't cross, and that he thought people would (in Rapture) be held responsible for their actions - which is a major balancing/counter-balancing component/factor of the Philosophy Ryan held. - Remember that Anti-biotics were the latest things in world medicine around the time Rapture started and alot of the advertised ADAM products were medical related (I hadn't heard of "Phossy Jaw" (phosphorus poisoning) before seeing a poster in BioShock for curing that malady). So there probably were very many different/specialized products of just that kind (we never got the name of the one(s) Steinmann used for his surgery). Also the industrialists/technologists/scientists/engineers also had skilled staff which many may have brought with them to Rapture (So Sinclair didn't do it all himself, but it sounded like he could understand all the very technical stuff). No doubt like Silicon Valley, as the industry expanded, many people would form their Own Companies off of good ideas they got while working for others (and could switch/change-jobs to the company which compensated them the most for their work -- OR adapt their work to what was available). So I don't think Sinclair would have 'double-crossed' Ryan, but would keep any additional business of his own separate, and might take advantage of opportunities in niches which Ryan ignored. Count how many Plasmids/Tonics were in the Gatherers Garden, and think how many more there likely were (and how many may still have been being developed/researched). One just to get rid of migraines or hangovers might have outsold all the rest. --- --- --- 'Vita Chambers Were Everywhere ' : Seen located even in very poor/strange places (there for the game's Save & Load alternative mechanism, but prominent, so it is Canon). Smuggler Hideout had one (and also had a Pneumo Kiosk). As Fontaine was made to be alot like Capone (though he could not possibly have the market-scale Capone had - either for the smuggling, or for ADAM business). Fontaine still probably had all kinds of people bribed or threatened into'looking the other way'. He could probably get anything he wanted for his operation (and the fact that they were there means they probably worked in a useful way). At least the simpler 'revitalization' function existed (was deployed). Suchong/Alexander/Sinclair had all been expanding on its abilities (to attempt the more difficult 'back from death' functionality). --- --- --- '''Big Daddies = 'Monsters' (Soulless Golems) Or Just Misunderstood ? ' : Possibly like the Handymen, the Big Daddy solution thing may have been sought by some of the disabled people (they also predated "Protectors" as cyborg (combined human/machine) maintenance workers -- probably replacing 'human' divers in what in Real Life is very dangerous work - diving/working in extreme ocean depths). Think of someone criminally insane (and more of these later after ADAM comes to Rapture) or even being a mindless vegetable. Under Ryan's Objectivist (one variant) Philosophy there is no Death Penalty for normal crimes, so do you warehouse them at public expense for the rest of their lives ? (If violent do you burn their brains out with lobotomies/electroshock like they did in those days in the Real World ?). So making them into "Diver Dans" and having them do useful work for the City doesn't sound so horrible. We really don't know how much personality/will/consciousness the BD may have retained (we have many hints that they did). The story goes that the City needed more of them to guard Little Sisters, and that caused more questionable prisoner 'volunteers' to be used. Personally, I would have instead brought/taken all the ADAM-corpses to well-guarded Little Sister Fortresses (Heh, a recycling reward for turning in corpses -- the double bonus is keeping the streets clean). --- --- --- 'How Many Citizens In Rapture Weren't Splicers ? ' : Ryan's Militia was equipped with equivalent 'gun' weapons. Do you SERIOUSLY think that Ryan thought Rapture needed any MORE ADAM-addled crazies ??? (Something the writers never though about when contriving their 'Ryan building an army of Splicers' for their forced plot illogic). After the reports in the Press (Fontaine could not suppress ALL of it), and the seeing of that 'disease'aspect of ADAM (and the many cases of insanity), wouldn't many people avoid then it further ? If it was so addictive, then THAT would have been noticed quite early (and reported uponto the Public) - consistency seems something the BS1 writers avoided when contriving their "Oh it just suddenly happened" storyline). Shortages - How many people could KEEP splicing for long ? The prices on that limited supply would also then go up significantly. Later : Avoiding ADAM - Was that a survival element - so as to to not go batshit-crazy when survival was needed. Splicers deteriorated, and the ADAM supply dwindled and was irregular at best. Improvised weapons could work much better than dodgy Plasmids. The MMORPG can illuminate these thing much better (there's no story 'twist' to facilitate by dishonestly manipulating the Player into using forced illogic and distorted events and tainted narrative. ) --- --- --- 'Rapture Prices During Whats Called Its "Civil War", and For New Rapture ': Things to be Understood for the BS1/BS2/etc games (which alter realistic prices) : * A simplification to have everything in whole dollars (don't want complications of fraction ...) * The FORCED Player resource balancing of the computer game factors (to prevent overabundance/cheapness of best ammo, too easy food-based regeneration, juicing up of the game payout $$$ significance, etc..) * Value discounted because "Money didn't matter that much anymore" -- ADAM allegedly becoming the de facto monetary specie during the Civil War (per the story). Unless : Ryan (likely) had held things together alot more that what is implied, (possibly what you see is only because Fontaine walks YOU through most destabilized sections of Rapture). ADAM though wouldn't have been an overly convenient form for basic exchange. * The likely inflation in Prices for early "Civil War" times are being reflected (before things got so bad money no longer had any value - too much money is laying about + too few things buyable). Though why ANYTHING should remain in any Vending machine is a bit implausible in that case. * The prices are for VENDING Machines, which ALWAYS (in our world) have a premium pricing to compensate for the customers convenience. * Consider Columbia's even-more-Absurd prices of Vigors in that game's strange/illogical "vending" machines (when more normal prices are seen in shops ...) -- Having monetary amounts equal to a typical US citizen's yearly income at that time (( '' Even with the Monty Haul gaming of the Manic-Magpie container-opening 'bin diving' Player activity in the game, perverting the value of money, which was in the typical American 'dollar' units worth/valued ALOT more in the era, those many decades previous to Rapture. '' )) Extravagant Prices after their simplifying the game, which did not have any equivalent of ADAM as a separate game-controlled/manipulated 'currency', so prices were used to control the Player-ability for their artificial upgrade progression (buying the Magic Superpowers). * For the MMORPG (where THINGS in New Rapture are usually worth more than money) - created via the crafting/fabrication game features, where even discarded bottlecaps from the 'golden age' have significant recycling value (bartering between Players is allowed, Good and Services being 'paid', etc...). But that's alot harder to unitize/balance than a "Shooter" game's currency "points". (Note - you saw in Infinite BS weird bullion and jewlery being magically counted indirectly as money - as income to be somehow fed into those unlikely/Rapture-cloned vending machines). --- --- --- ' "Not Made Here" - Best if Employed for Rapture's Story ' : Inexpensive manufacturing is MASS manufacturing - not something you would see for many items made in Rapture. When things are NOT mass manufactured, their costs and prices increase significantly (like by 5 or 10 times). SO an awful LOT of the things you see in Rapture (and Columbia also) would have been made in the Surface World initially. (Thus there would exist in Rapture many repair shops for all those items which Rapture couldn't/wouldn't manufacture.) --- --- --- Game Mechanics '''BioBreaks : Unlike other MMORPGs you need to Eat/Drink/Sleep in this game. Generic stuff can be done fairly automatically while the Player isn't on (just that provisions must be made for it - ie - a working restroom is an asset for your Residence). While playing, the 'Biologicals' will have indicators, and can impact activities (provisions for expeditions for yourself and your 'Team' NPCs (and any other Players with you). The local grocery store/bar of course can make a good 'Quest Giver' site (or even be the location for interesting happenings itself). Probably the toilet facilities will lack full detail (unless some Player Developer/Creator REALLY MUST HAVE IT (and have fun/amusement with making it). "Oh Noooo's, the homemade grenade I was making is malfunctioning and has started smoking - Quick Flush it Down the Toilet !!! BOOOOOOM!!!!!! NOOOOOO !!! IDIOT - NOT THE PLUMBING !!!! Note - We may need to have a control setting (?) for controlling the 'less than adult' humor (allowing choice of avoidance/distraction). (( Hmm, a *bonus* for realisticity ?? )) A Vomitting App (Yep- real mess on the floor (ANOTHER ASSET TYPE - YAY !!).... "Hey, I'm Not Cleaning that up " ). Handy when the perp "swallows the evidence" (hmmmm). (Contests for 'most creative' bodily function sound effects would seem plausible - Yes, we can descend to that juvenile level). Prestige stuff Dinner with associate/whoever to earn prestige (an attempt to restore some normalcy) : * Manners ... (how the hell do you do that through a computer game interface ??) * Appropriate jokes and discussion subjects * Farts are still 'faux pas' Healing Stuff - for Recovery : * Pulling out shrapnel with pliers, like in Far Cry 2 * Realistic wounds (and creepy things like intestinal parasites) * Routine treatment for some disease/wound/scrapes/cuts - repeated application being required for 'lesser' (cheaper) medicines). * Add a "Doc" (skill specialism) to your NPC "Team" (or a (NPC) Practitioner you trust for your Rolodex of Associations ). * Various medical 'tools' and 'ad hoc' skills Maintaining energy for Activities : * Coffee and sugar are hard to come by * Just eating food regularly (and maintaining a supply of it for your 'Team') Morale stuff - better food - you don't just feed your employees (Team) with slop or they might choose a better employer (and the higher in accomplishments/skills, the more they expect). Much larger effects to abilities (ever try shooting a Splicer with a gun when you have a Migraine ???) Bad Booze, Bad Food, Bad Air, Bad Water Sleep (its really boring if you have to do it while you are playing) --- --- --- --- --- . . .